Ep. 1 - Growing Oceanic Esports, London Major and OCE LoL esports in 2025

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Alrighty. We are live, and welcome to the first episode of ENT. In association with the Oceanic Gaming radio network, which is now a network. We're adding more shows, and we're doing it. I'm one of your hosts, weapon, and I am joined here by Max fall, my stalwart co host. How you doing, buddy? [00:00:21] Speaker B: Yeah, doing all right. You lost the XVX. [00:00:25] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I dished a while ago because when I was looking at my username one day, and I was like, yeah, it kind of gives me, like, MySpace vibes, if you don't know. What, like, vegan, straight edges. You just think it kind of looks a bit cheesy, so I just dropped it now. Yeah. Everyone calls you weapon, so that's why. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Throwback, dude. [00:00:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:44] Speaker B: You know what, weapon? [00:00:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Because we're going to start off, and we were talking beforehand. It's all about bashing the positivity. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Yep. [00:00:49] Speaker B: You're on my top eight. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Oh, okay. There we go. [00:00:52] Speaker B: I'm claiming it right now. You're not. You're not in the top row. You're in the second row. [00:00:55] Speaker A: Wait, what? [00:00:56] Speaker B: But you're on my. [00:00:57] Speaker A: Okay, come on. [00:00:58] Speaker B: All right, so we'll just jump right. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Ahead through that, as we do have ground Zero jar joining us now. You're the director of Ground Zero, is. [00:01:06] Speaker C: That correct, jar as an official title? I guess you could say we needed to put something on it, but who knows what I actually do? Don't think anyone actually knows. [00:01:15] Speaker A: I mean, it's esports, right? So everyone just kind of wears, like, a bunch of different hats. You're kind of trading them all the time, right? [00:01:21] Speaker C: Yeah, that's. That's the way it is. [00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:23] Speaker B: I thought your job was just to, like, piss off. Yummy cheese, man. [00:01:26] Speaker C: That's one of the main things. Yeah. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:29] Speaker C: Officially, that's. That's one of the main things. He's ground zero's biggest hater, so, you know, you got to get back at him sometimes. [00:01:34] Speaker A: Nice. Quickly, just for the benefit of those people who are probably tuning in for the first time, because this is the first episode. What is n. So it's called ent because the other program that we're a part of, the. The other network. The other show on this network, oceanic game radio, if you haven't checked them out, please do. They're sick. Their logos and ogre, so wear. And just like the other guys, we're esports news talk. I guess we'll figure out the acronym later, but we're just here to basically give you a bit of a rundown of what's happening in esports just from the oceanic perspective. So, yeah, we'll be doing this every. Every couple of weeks bi weekly. So when Ogre is not being. Not uploading, we'll be doing our thing. We got a couple of subjects to get through. And, Max, I'll let you lead us in on this one because we've got jar here, and that's kind of what we want to talk about. [00:02:22] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, look, it's a first episode, so naturally, our investigative journalism is not where it needs to be. So why not bring someone in who's established, who has been in the scene for a while? So, yeah, jar, thank you so much for joining us. I wanted you here right now because ground zero. Look, I want to say you're big time involved right now in two of the major esports happening, but even if ground zero itself is involved, but you know your rocket league, you know your league of legends. I'm assuming you know your league of legends. [00:02:52] Speaker C: That's what you think. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Fair shout. But, yeah. No, I don't know. I just feel like when it comes to grassroot australian, like, esports orgs, when you go throw it back, there's only, like, two that are kind of still here. There's the Chiefs, which have kind of become, like, this weird bliss Chiefs amalgamation thing, and then there's ground zero still kicking. Right. So I feel like it's just the perfect sort of segue into the start of the show. [00:03:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, we've been around, obviously established in 2017, I sort of joined around the COVID period, initially coming on as an ambassador role. I guess my main focus with that or primary goal was sort of to bridge the gap between real sports. If you don't know, I'm a professional cricketer, so bridging the gap between real sports and esports because there's a lot of similarities. You know, there's a lot of professionalism involved, and I guess the education around what it's like to become a professional isn't something that's, you know, spoken about every day to these people that are involved in gaming. So that was. That was the primary goal, and then sort of came on board in a more official sense as an. As a part owner with Bo or excel a little bit later on a couple of years ago. [00:04:22] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, which is crazy, too, because, again, I mean, a as we were talking about beforehand, in order, I think to make it an esports, you have to be a man of many different hats. You kind of learn quickly how adaptable you have to be in that regards. But I guess to further focus in on that traditional to esports players, and maybe I'm going way sidetracky straight away, but how much of a difference is there between, like, bubble scene, you know, athletes trying to break into, like, I guess in your example, cricket or whatever other sports, and, like, the esports bubble scene players? Because I feel like. I don't know, I feel like maybe there's some ways mentalities are similar, other ways mentalities are different. I just feel esports players are degenerates. I don't know. Is that the same traditional sport? [00:05:10] Speaker C: I think, like, resource availability is, is definitely one of the biggest impacts or biggest issues that I've found. I think, you know, breaking through into professional sports, sport in general, being pretty big in Oceania, there's quite a lot of resources, and I think that's just a population thing as well, right? There's a lot more people playing traditional sports than esports at the moment. So bubble players trying to break in, they're sort of left to, I guess, prove themselves before they've even had an opportunity to prove themselves, which is quite impossible to do. So they're very often stuck in free play and, you know, trying to have the discipline that they may not understand to get better and waiting for that opportunity that might not ever come. Whereas, I guess, in traditional sports, there's a lot more eyes on. There's, again, a lot more resources. So I think it's a little bit different, but that's a challenge that we hold in Oceana. Like, we're such a small region. It is pretty difficult. [00:06:15] Speaker B: But I also feel like, as well, though, like, yeah, maybe traditional sports might be more eyes on from a professional standpoint, but I almost feel like, as well, at least for Rocket League, right, we'll go into Rocket League. A lot of these bubble teams, you know, with players who haven't quite made it onto, like, RLCs regulars, they're still under that same almost public eye because we are that smaller region. Everyone kind of knows everyone. I almost feel like they would almost get scrutinized more at times as well, despite maybe less globalize on them. [00:06:43] Speaker C: Yeah, that is true. Definitely true. I guess everyone knows something about what's going on somewhere in Oceania. You can't really escape that. [00:06:53] Speaker A: So. [00:06:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I guess that is true. But, yeah, I think it is difficult as a bubble player in Rocket league to break through. I think we've seen for a number of years now that the top teams sort of just rotating through rosters and not particularly having the success that we had hoped. So hopefully there's a new crop coming through soon. I guess one of the big ones that we wanted to do last season with prompt is give him that opportunity because we really felt like he was the next up and comer for this region. So, I mean, yeah, we'll just have to see how that plays out, but I mean, hopefully a couple of the big teams can give some young guns a go soon. [00:07:34] Speaker A: There's actually this interesting conversation to be had when it comes to, like, these new players and where they actually play because you talked about free play, like, you know, pubs or whatever you want to call them, right? And it feels like there's been a real lack of a sort of legitimate tier two or I guess tier three in this case for a lot of the esports. So, like, rocket league, obviously, league now has the ODT that's starting to spin up and pick up some traction, and we're proud of that. But, like, it feels like we haven't really had that. And the mindset around, like, where you actually go to get better or where you go to go to be seen just hasn't really been there. And I guess there's like an auger and I'm really interested, like, how have you found, like, from maybe starting from like three or four years ago, finding new players versus now? Is it still kind of the same or is like, what's the struggles? [00:08:21] Speaker C: It still feels like it is a little bit of the same or players wise rolling around, but you're exactly right. I think there is a lack of community events. I think there is a lack of competition. You see in na, they've got, you know, college cardboard and stuff like that. They've got. They've got a huge, I guess, crop that they can pick from and players developing, whereas we just don't have that. We struggle to get an off season tournament. It's tough. Like, it is really tough for a smaller region and it's, I guess it just comes down to budget issues. I mean, everyone would love to run a tournament. Everyone would love to be able to run these community events, but it's tough because people are expecting prize monies and they are expecting good casters and good production. I guess the return on investment just doesn't become viable for a lot of orgs. So it is a tough thing for these players to try and figure out where they want to play, and I guess it is still an ongoing process on how we work that out. [00:09:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess almost like kind of like, adding on to that, too. For someone who kind of works with a lot of, like, these grassroots orcs that kind of push things forward, it really does become impossible almost without a large portion of people being volunteers. And volunteer workers are great for, like, one, two, three events, but eventually I feel it's so easy for especially younger people who do volunteer their time to become so disillusioned in things where they don't see the progress that's happening. Um, and that's for the people running, I think for the players as well. Um, it probably can be disillusioning as well when, like, there's so few options. The options that you're getting might not be run the best or they're still, like, you know, trying to iron out their kinks, but then there's never any growth because there's, like, a high turnover volunteers. It's just kind of almost like, stuck in the muck that unless you're incredibly dedicated and, like, willing to completely just drag yourself out of the kicking and screaming, it feels insurmountable. [00:10:20] Speaker C: And that's the difficult thing as well. I mean, I was watching fibers stream before he had. He played some scrim, some scrim games and said that there's. There's really only three teams scrimming at the moment and they're trying to prepare for a world championship. I mean, that's. [00:10:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:35] Speaker C: How is that the best preparation? You know, it's. It's hard. It's not easy to be a player in this region. [00:10:41] Speaker A: We have, like, a similar thing. You know, we like, I work with space jump, which, you know, formal, does the casting ball when we do online stuff, and that's over and just in Perth, actually, so I'm actually. [00:10:51] Speaker B: You should be close to that. That's like near ground zero hq. [00:10:54] Speaker A: Yeah, it's literally on our, like, later on the show we'll be talking about events are coming up, like, that's in the next couple of weeks, so that's, like, damn soon. And. Yeah, we have, like one team. It's like the. The Matthew Matro and who's the other one? [00:11:09] Speaker C: Rothy Rossi. [00:11:10] Speaker A: Yeah, like, that's. That's it. Right. And we're not seeing the competition. You kind of replicate that across the scene. So it's like, who do they play against to get better? And we're going to talk about the RL London major because that. That just happened for our teams and it. I feel like we're seeing the. The output of that for those teams, which is like, they just don't have the opponents to make them better. [00:11:32] Speaker B: It's the budget as well. Right. Because, like, power has the budget there where they can go. They can swim for like, two, three weeks. But, like, I don't think any other organ oce that's an Oce based would be able to do something like that. [00:11:44] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think you see, like, every time that our players go overseas and actually get the practice that they deserve, they're all coming back at, you know, 2000 MMR or 2100 MMR. So they're keeping up with the other players. I think it's just that lack of, you know, not the grind factor, because everyone in our region wants to grind. They want to get better. It's just. How do they actually do that? [00:12:07] Speaker A: Yeah, like, we've seen a little bit of success in, like, counter strike for FlyQuest. That's a good example where those guys have been backed by. I mean, unfortunately, it's not the best example because they've been backed by an outside. It's a north american organization, but they've been sent to Europe and they've come back and now they're dominating. And hopefully we kind of see that knock on. But that's going to take some time, right? [00:12:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's a big gamble for an.org in another region to take a risk on little, little old Oceania. You know, that's just, that's the reality. It's a risk for someone like that to come on board. But, you know, hopefully, the more success stories we see and, you know, people seeing the possibilities that it does pay off and it. And it can work, we just grow and get better as a region. [00:12:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like we've been a bit doom and gloom, but, like, how do. How do we move past? It's like you've. [00:13:04] Speaker B: We've already talked touch on that top eight, man. [00:13:06] Speaker A: Yeah. How do we get. How do we do it? [00:13:09] Speaker B: I top eight it. [00:13:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:11] Speaker B: Power we trust. Actually, you know what? I don't. I don't dislike the pioneers chances either. [00:13:15] Speaker A: But, I mean, it is the case I'm gonna talk about. [00:13:18] Speaker B: You're so in power we trust, but, I mean, if only ground zero could have done it, right, that would have been. Whoo. [00:13:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:28] Speaker B: Well, last year's roster. Last year's roster. That ground zero roster last year was. [00:13:35] Speaker A: I'm not a. I'm not a rock lake guy. [00:13:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. I'm just saying right now, I'll. I will glaze this roster up. Super locky coming back, winter regional split one, just one v. It was a. [00:13:49] Speaker C: Serious revenge arc, wasn't it? Having. Having been dropped by KCP coming to us and just. He had 100 hours for about six weeks straight. Like, it was. It was crazy. He went nuts. [00:14:03] Speaker B: That was. That was the team. And I still can't believe that. Yeah. Didn't wind up at worlds, but that's neither here nor there. I don't want to dwell on the past on this one. It's just like, yeah, not doom and gloom. Obviously, getting international success, I think, is that first major step in kind of opening up. But I also think I putting more weight on domestic success would be good. I don't really know how. I kind of feel like as a storyteller, maybe that falls a little bit on the talent, a little bit on that production side. But as you were saying before, it's just like, how do you justify, you know, something that kind of comes across as a sunken cost overall when you look at, like, the lines being the money. I don't know, it's kind of above my head, but, like, yeah, I want to see it. I want to see. I want to give people a reason to invest in Oce. [00:14:50] Speaker A: Yeah. I feel I'm a big fan of grassroots. Obviously, it's where we do our work for the most part, Max. So, like, yeah, and I imagine for yourself, jar, a lot of the stuff you do is involve in grassroots. So I feel like lending a sense of legitimacy to the grassroots stuff or just developmental leagues in general gets us most of the way because if people care about their results in, say, ODT or like, I don't know, scrimsworld, AeL. Ael. Yeah, that sort of stuff. Like, then people are going to be more engaged with that and then they bring the passion, the skill elsewhere. And you also kind of have to, hopefully that has the knock on effect of going to the staff as well because we are going to go there because you talked about it a little bit. Volunteers, some of them are really good. Some of them are not so good because they're just there and we kind of want everyone to be super bought into the product. We've talked about, like, the caster curse of, like, you're the person who cares the most about the product and maybe there's two other people and staff who do. So your ideas don't quite, quite get taken as serious as they could be. Not that every idea that, like, I come up with is great. I'm sure all your ideas great, but, like, you know, I think I'm explaining this poorly, but, you know, you know I'm talking about Max. [00:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I do, I do. And it's just I'm curious jar's perspective in this one then. Because again, like going back from that orgs perspective, like what would be your answer to it? [00:16:22] Speaker C: I've. I think also, I think. I don't know. The awareness is a big thing. I genuinely think there's just not enough people in Oceana that understand professional gaming is a thing. I've always said that. I've always said that we're sort of one generation away so sort of our, our kids kids, I guess, you know, from being that big step up and it's sort of our job to not sacrifice but grow that foundation and that platform for them to succeed because it's, it's difficult for us at the moment. And I've always thought that the school space is really important. Um, yeah, you know that I guess it just that growth of awareness that this is a thing and a thing that kids and teenagers and young adults can be successful at. Yep. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I actually have to ask them, like what? Because I know Queensland. I think this kind of might sound crazy, but I think out of all the states in Australia, Queensland has the best high school rocket league team. [00:17:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:17:31] Speaker B: Like, like past couple years there have been multiple events running from multiple different orgs happening. Like AEL had their hands in meta had their hands in XP esports. Now I think it's Queensland esports running consistent high school events. I haven't seen that though from other states. Like why is that just like a Queensland what? How do we get these other states then doing that? Because I agree jar completely with you. I think schools are the way to go. It's why I like to be involved with high school and inter varsity leagues. Like how do we get that happening? [00:18:00] Speaker C: That's a good question. That's a great question. I think if someone's figured that out then it will have happened. [00:18:09] Speaker A: I mean the question of demographics, like are kids still playing competitive games at the same rate as like we do? Because when I think about like Zoomers, they're playing mostly and then. Yeah, like a lot of like, more. [00:18:24] Speaker B: Like you are Boomer dude. Roblox fortnight is gone. It's all rock. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that's like, that's the generation for. But see, like are the games still being played to the. The same level? Valorant is a game that we don't cover a lot but that seems to be the other one that's like in there Rocket league. [00:18:41] Speaker C: I don't know, I feel like because Rocket league's been out for a while now. I don't feel like it's a game that people would necessarily gravitate to straight away just because it's nothing. Yeah, it's not new, it's not fresh, it's not a new idea. I don't know, it'd be interesting to see some hard numbers on. Well, you're never going to really know because there's so many smurfs around. But how many new signups there's actually been in the trajection or the trajectory of that, whether or not it's gone up or down over the last. You would have had the boom when. [00:19:13] Speaker B: It went free to play, right? Like free to play would have brought in a lot of people in when that has happened. And I don't know if the Rocket Racers Fortnite did brought in people. I would like to hope that, hey, we can drive an octane in fortnight. Let's see what this octane is from. But I'd be curious as well because I know other games like League of Legends kind of has been struggling to find new people and that always like looked like a pillar that would be around for a long time. Yeah, I don't know anybody under the age of 25 who plays games like Dota or StarCraft Brood War, which used to be pillars of like this esports kind of scene. So I do worry Rocket League could fall into that trap. [00:19:48] Speaker A: Yeah, Dota is an interesting one because that's actually when I talk about Dota, I want to have the opposite conversation. I want to talk about like older players sticking to it because Dota is like a really good example of it. But yeah, League of Legends is. Is an interesting case because it goes my phone because when I think about players who are super young, like we again going back to Queensland, we've had the really good like high school scene pop up there where you guys had that incredible event that happened just after I left the ODK broadcast. And we've got players coming up like my boy Kip Kangaroo, who is just a monster and he's been playing since high school. [00:20:25] Speaker B: So like I call. I would not to pat my own back here, but I was calling his games back when he was like a silver player, top lane high school matches. And to see him go all the way, it shows the benefits of the high school programs. It shows why they can't be good. [00:20:41] Speaker A: Yeah, this is probably. Sorry, go ahead, go ahead. [00:20:44] Speaker C: This is probably more a question for Max, but what do you. So we speaking about older players in Dota and League of Legends, where does the falloff come for Rocket League players? Like, what do you think actually? Like, is it, is it just not sustainable for players from a monetary point of view? They're not earning enough to stick at it. Is it like a genuine reaction time, just getting old, old eyes sort of thing? Like, what do you think it actually is? I think it's a mixture of everything, really. But it would be interesting to hear what you think. [00:21:15] Speaker A: I want to say the data torso. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Is the exception to the war right now, but it's crazy because he's 23, right. And, like, people treat him like he's not. [00:21:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Like he is. He's a geezer, but, like, he's the one who's been around for ages. I don't want to believe reaction time is the case of it, but it does, at least in Oce. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Did you guys say that match against who was it Genji? [00:21:36] Speaker B: Okay, look, look, fair enough. We'll discard that one. But, like, I guess what I'm getting at though is it does feel like, at least with Oce, I don't think it's the lack of, like, career path for sure. Right. Yeah. A lot of the players who retired, retired and went to university, and that's how come, like, our university league is almost like, you know, the retirement player. [00:21:56] Speaker C: So you sort of think it's just life taking over sort of thing. Not so much. There's just no grind factor for. Because, you know, they're not getting the money and everything, so they're better off suited to. [00:22:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think that's what it is. I think it's just life takes over and you have to make smart decisions. That said, there have been some players, I don't know how name name we can get who have been kind of pushed away by, like, the toxicity or they didn't really vibe with the scene despite being up there towards the top. And I think that's a different problem. And maybe that could be a discussion we have in the future when I do a bit more research and kind of come in a bit more intelligent, that one. But I do think the primary retirement factor is just like, yeah, you can't make the career off it. And if you have to invest as much time as these high school kids, you can put in that time to it. In our region at least. Yeah, you're just going to get blown out eventually. [00:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah, that's rough because, like, going back to the dota example, like, you've got dudes who are like, pushing 40, seb just like it literally had a kid. Although I think he's like, only his late twenties. Mid, like early thirties. But yeah, he's literally had a kid. So he's like a married ass dude having a kid playing in a ti qualifying tournament. And like, you're saying that in like counter strike as well. There's some older dudes there because it's just such a stable thing. You can just keep playing it until you die. [00:23:18] Speaker B: And I think to appeal to jars background on this one, look at traditional sports. It's rare, yes, but there are some people who stay in sports for a very long time at that top level. [00:23:29] Speaker C: Because that's why I asked that question. Because you see people in traditional sports, especially a game like cricket, where your reactions have to be, you know, on point, and people are playing till mid thirties, late thirties. So it can't. It can't just be the excuse of my reaction times aren't as good. It has to just be. I suppose if money is your intrinsic motivator and you're not getting it, then you have to change your priorities. Right? [00:23:53] Speaker A: I'd love to see the actual study. Like, I'd love to find it later on. But I do remember seeing a study which indicated that basically you've got two kinds of reactions, right? There's like the. I've done this a million times before, so my muscle memory is there type reaction, and that sort of shows up. I've got an echo. I'm not sure if you all can hear that a little bit. Seems to be you. Ja, sorry. You're right. But yeah, there's like the sort of muscle memory type, like, I've done this a million times, so your body just kind of knows what to do. And then there's more like, dynamic reaction times where you. It's a new situation. You're forced to kind of like, make that snap reaction. And there was a study I saw that which kind of suggested that the former, like the. The one, the practice gets better as you get older. So things like sports, you can actually just keep doing them because your body is just. You just learn it, whereas more dynamic stuff. So maybe different types of games, maybe first person. I mean, counter strike is an example of stuff where it is a more dynamic reaction. But yeah, basically, to some of the point, like, it doesn't seem like the science supports the fact that your reactions get worse as long as you're actively practicing. [00:25:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. [00:25:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:12] Speaker B: And that would explain things, I think, like, you know, your Lewis Hamilton or your Fernando Holland. [00:25:16] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:25:16] Speaker B: Your. Your 39 42 year old f one drivers where reaction time has to be beyond peak to kind of be there. So, yeah, I kind of. With you, I kind of. Even though I use it as an excuse for my own bad play, even though I have. [00:25:31] Speaker C: I think we all do. [00:25:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I have the old boomer mechanics. All right. Now the reality is I just don't put in the time to, like, learn and get there. [00:25:39] Speaker C: Well, I don't know where I'm going wrong then. Cause I do have the time to play it. I'm still not improving. [00:25:44] Speaker A: I will say. Are you. Are you Perth based? Yes, Doctor Doxy. So I, recent Perth graduate, recently moved over to Melbourne and playing like, league going from 60 ping to 15. I feel like the training weights have been ripped off. Like, I can actually, like, react to things. It's incredible. Yep. [00:26:04] Speaker C: Yep. It's a. It's a true thing. Like, like, I went. I just recently got fiber Internet and like, I went from 80 to 49 or 50 and it's. [00:26:15] Speaker A: That's nice. [00:26:16] Speaker C: It's changed. Like, it is ridiculous how different it is even that I'm on still on 50 ping. Like whenever I travel to Sydney and I'm on eight or six or seven or whatever, it's just. It's just silly. It's an. It's unfair advantage. [00:26:31] Speaker A: It's so. And I can't believe there are guys like in Curzio who play. I think incursio is still Perth based even when he's playing in the LCO, like, well, Benvy. [00:26:38] Speaker C: Benvy's perfect base. [00:26:40] Speaker A: Is he still in as well? That's insane. [00:26:42] Speaker C: Yeah. And PGG, when they played real Perth. [00:26:44] Speaker A: Base as well, because that was. Well, that was a decision by Steve to have them scrim against Sea teams. [00:26:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:52] Speaker A: Which, I mean, probably why they did well. Yeah, good decision, for sure. But unfortunately didn't pay off when it came to playing in the LCO, but other reasons why that team broke down. But before we move on, and I think it's probably about time we do, any closing thoughts on. I mean, we've basically just covered a lot of stuff, but ground zero and. [00:27:11] Speaker C: Grassroots development, nothing from me. I mean, yeah, we're trying to do what we can. There's plenty of information on our website about what we do outside of the actual esports arena. [00:27:27] Speaker B: I guess you do activation stuff, too, because I. From when I gather, like, pictures of, like, players showing up to, like, some activation at like, the Westpac mall or something. [00:27:36] Speaker C: Yeah. So that was. That was cool. We had a. That roster. Locky fiber and kaka we flew them out for an activation. We had like, a player meet and greet. It was really cool. But that's something that we're continually growing. I mean, that's. That's another space. That's just another conversation altogether. But, yeah. [00:27:54] Speaker B: What was the turnout for that? Like, did they. Were there actually, like legitimate? Like, yo, ground zero. Super locky here, let's. That's me. [00:28:02] Speaker A: There was that space jump literally called, I got to meet fiber, bro. So I think you guys. [00:28:08] Speaker C: Yeah, it wasn't bad. Biggest one for. That's just foot traffic and eyes on, really through the shops. But, yeah, that's another. That's a conversation that we can. That's. That's quite in depth. [00:28:20] Speaker A: So, yeah, definitely something we can maybe get your bow back on for a future. [00:28:25] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, for sure. [00:28:26] Speaker B: We have a long rocket league off season. All right, that's very true. [00:28:30] Speaker C: I'd be interested to talk about that. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Actually, speaking of Rocket League, and I'm going to defer to you guys a lot on this one, but I have been watching and I've been enjoying what I've been saying. RL London, major first event we're going to talk about on this show and it's been kind of a banger thus far. The oce teams have shown up well. One did, one did, one did not. But I think there are a couple of moments where chiefs looked okay. [00:28:54] Speaker B: Yeah, they threw it away by losing three in a row to AIPAC. [00:28:58] Speaker A: It's rough, but, I mean, let's start at the top of the order here because we got power and they took down oxygen. It was kind of sick. [00:29:08] Speaker B: It was. [00:29:09] Speaker A: It was sad. [00:29:10] Speaker B: So here's the thing, though, like, my takeaway with that and I. Awesome series. Amazing, exciting. I had friends in discord calls watching with me popping off that don't, like, care about Rocket League at all. Like, it was a fun, exciting series, but we tend to do this as a region. If we always go to these majors, we pull off one upset in the first or second round and then can never follow it up. So, like, yes, that was great. Last time it was. We beat rule one. And I think this win over oxygen was a bit bigger than the one against rule one. But I. It's the same problem of, like, we get. We get one big upset, win the match we're supposed to, but then cannot crack that top eight. It's always the round five. It's the round five issue. [00:29:53] Speaker A: Yeah. I feel like when I was watching the oxygen game, I saw this was like a power that I watched all of the RLCs because my good friend Max formal von Neumann was casting it. And also morgi. We love some morgue. Also my first time seeing, uh, CJ and yummy do their thing. Really good casters, um, CJ killed it. A world, uh, at, um, at the major. But, um, like, this was a power that we kind of. We, we were seeing more from them than we were seeing in the RLCs. And that's what you want, right? Like I said, I remember this one play when I think it was fever was going for like a. He was going for like a flip reset, and then he just faked completely and then just let the ball bounce in. And I was like, I hadn't seen him do that in RLCs. He hasn't had to. And then for the rest of the tournament, that kind of just went away and that creativity just wasn't there. [00:30:44] Speaker C: Do you think it's just pure surprise factor? We get to the major, we have a pop off performance. People don't give us the respect that we necessarily deserve, get that upset. And then teams go, oh, wait, hold on a second. We need to put a bit more. [00:31:01] Speaker A: Got a scrim. [00:31:02] Speaker C: Yeah, we got, we got to put my emphasis in this series. And then everyone else just shows up. [00:31:07] Speaker B: It might be. I've heard that prophesied before, but then, that doesn't explain the rule one victory in the first major, right? Like that was teams back against the wall elimination match. And again, power came through. I kind of. I don't know. I don't know if like the. I never like questioning players mental. I don't know if it's in their head. I don't know if just the other teams of kind of wind up more prepared. But I do agree, what we saw in that first series was power playing. They were treating oxygen like they were treating random teams in OC. They were playing. [00:31:45] Speaker C: It takes me a lot. It takes me a lot to comment something positive on power, but I must admit they were, they played really well. And I actually messaged our ground zero group chat and was like, powers actually looking the goods here. [00:32:01] Speaker A: Yeah, they looked clean. [00:32:03] Speaker B: That's the same. And I think that's why this one was more impressive than the rule one win to me back at the first major as well, was because the rule one game, they were still on the back foot the entire time and just like fighting counter attack sort of chip shots and able to follow it up. But they were treating oxygen like physics, right? They were just constantly in their face, constantly playing for and then you. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. Weapon. Like, we never saw that again from them. Even in the series against the Gladiators. They just didn't look like they were all there. And I don't know what it takes to keep that consistent performance, to kind of force teams to play our style. I almost worry sometimes that like, and this is something only a player can answer, so I could be way off, but it feels like the second oce players get a pressured a bit, they kind of like, okay, we need to fix. We need to change right now. It needs to be immediate adaption both in terms of rosters, in terms of playstyle, in terms of everything. And that never works. It never works out in our favor. [00:33:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:01] Speaker C: I'd be interested to see what the players actually do in between series because it's quite like it's a long time between series. Right. Even. Even on the one day they've got what, an hour or two at least between series. Yeah, even longer. Yeah, yeah, longer than that. So it's like, I wonder what they're actually doing in that time, how much energy that spending what. What they're doing nutrition wise. Obviously that's really important. But I mean, I'm just thinking from what you. What I do from a professional point of view for cricket, like there's, you know, we have games that last five days. Like you're. The time in between you're actually doing something is so important. I wonder if it's just that. That arousal level that's up and then they have a massive crash because of that. That time that they have to wait. I wonder if that time could be better spent. I don't know. That's just a thought that I've had. Cause I mean, yeah, it can make a big difference. Like waiting that long. [00:34:01] Speaker B: Are they maximizing their land time? Like, that's a legitimate question. And I feel like lack of lands, like in oce, whereas like these other places, there's a lot more sort of lands happening when you look in Na or EU of just like random events. I wonder if that also kind of hurts our performances at these majors. [00:34:21] Speaker C: I think that'd be 100% a different result. If we played. If we played oxygen, for example, had that series and then went straight into another series, I think it would be a different result. [00:34:32] Speaker A: So what you're saying is land experience matters, therefore Matthew wins worlds. [00:34:40] Speaker C: No, I think it's just time. Like there has to be some sort of. There's got to be some sort of look into how that time can be optimized because you see it so often. As soon as there's a decent sized break. You even see in oce a little bit as well. When teams have to wait to play a series, that seems to be some sort of drop off. [00:35:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And now I want to get specific because obviously sports background here, so super helpful. Like, what would you have your players do in that break? You probably had them do it on ground zero. [00:35:09] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I mean, I. I can't speak much for our rocket league players, but my personal thing, like, because I suppose it's a little bit different. It's how players would recover mentally, I guess. Because for us, it's a lot about. Yes, it is mental, but for us, it's a lot about how we recover physically and how we can best prepare ourselves for the next opportunity, I guess. So I would expect it to be more of a mental thing. Um, it's just got to. Got to find a way to, again, optimize that time. Is it eating foods at the right time? Is it nutrition? Is it. Are you literally going for a nap? Are you shutting down for 2 hours? Are you getting straight back on the game? It's. That's going to be different for everyone, but I'd be interested to see what power and the likes are doing on land during that time. [00:36:00] Speaker B: It would be insightful. And then obviously power. Look, I know behind the scenes this was said, I don't remember said on stream, it was said by yummy. So I'm gonna give yummy credit for this. He did say power is gonna go two, three at the major and then make top eight at worlds. That was the yummy cheese man prediction. [00:36:20] Speaker A: I back it. [00:36:20] Speaker C: Um, yeah, we can. We'll take that. [00:36:22] Speaker B: So. I'll take that. I'll take that. Don't get me wrong, but I do wonder, like, if they are able to build off this, because I think they could do that. I think that actually sounds perfectly reasonable against what we saw from them. [00:36:32] Speaker A: We saw moments. Yeah. [00:36:34] Speaker C: We just don't want another OC. Oc elimination. [00:36:37] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. No more of that. But if they do go up against the pioneers, I'm kind of curious on what your take on that one would be because you've. You've worked with some of the players on that pioneer side, fiber being one. Yeah, I can think of, like, do you. Do you. Do you like that lineup? Do you think that lineup, first of all, do you think it's stronger than the Chiefs? Yes. Okay. How much stronger do you think they are? [00:37:00] Speaker C: Oh, it's got to come down to land experience, doesn't it? I mean, I think I know that. I think it's got to be. I personally take power. I know that fiber has been to land. I know that Locky's been to lan. Amphas has obviously been to land. But I think recency bias as well with power being at lan, having that experience, land buff, as they say. [00:37:24] Speaker B: But that roster click. I guess that's the next question. Because on paper that pioneers roster should have been competing with power, right? Like they should have taken his series off them. I feel like at some stage now. [00:37:37] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a good question. I think that's an issue. I think that's a deeper issue in oce. I feel like our, our main rosters bar power, you know, just. Just chop. And it's back on my point about these upcoming players that we lack, you know, our top pros, they just rotate between teams and hope that there's a combination that sticks and works. So I'd like to be like to see something different there, but I don't know. Is it personality clash? Is it gameplay clash? I guess that's only. They're the only ones that can answer that. Really? [00:38:11] Speaker B: Yeah, they are. [00:38:12] Speaker A: I'd love to. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Dude, I bet you. I tried to think about it and then super locky came down on me hard when I tried to. They keep it close to their chest, whatever it is, which is a little bit frustrating because I feel like it'd be a great learning experience wherever. It's like, hey, I know no player would ever do this, but, like, to have a player be like, yo, here's why things went wrong, XYz. Maybe it would help others in the region learn from it and help us grow as a whole. I know that's never going to happen, but it would be. [00:38:38] Speaker C: It's very. It's very situational. Like, we don't know. There could be something super dramatic that's happened or it could be nothing and it's just as simple as now. They just didn't play well together. You just don't. [00:38:49] Speaker B: The fact that cyber got brought back after the 6th regional, according to the tweet, he's saying he's playing at world. So. [00:38:57] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's the lesson I wanted to ask is like, is mock just not going to get play at all because he's. He's still on the roster, right? [00:39:03] Speaker B: Well, he's the coach. [00:39:05] Speaker A: He's coach. Right. Okay, this is context. I didn't know. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:08] Speaker C: So he'll be there. In what capacity? No idea. [00:39:12] Speaker B: It's. It's weird, but, like, I don't think I've ever heard of a rocket league roster, like, benching a player, telling them, yeah, you're not going to play worlds, and then bringing them back like that. [00:39:23] Speaker A: It's kind of, it feels like something you would do if a player is kind of like, if they have ego problems. I don't know. Like, I'm not insinuating this is the case with fiber, but I've. There have been cases, like, there was the cloud nine situation. Right, where. True. Who? It was sneaky and Jensen got benched for. Yeah. And that was purely because of their ego. And then they got brought back midway through the season. [00:39:45] Speaker B: Was it Jensen or was it meteos? [00:39:47] Speaker A: It might have been meteos, yeah, maybe. But, like, it kind of feels like something you would do there. Maybe the fact that mock, like, I don't think that's the case here because a coach who would bench a player and then put himself in that lineup, that would be a bit awkward. But, like, it feels like something like that. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Actually, I have a question for you. How would that go down on the cricket pitch if one day your coach was like, all right, you're benched. I'm stepping in? [00:40:17] Speaker C: I think there'd be a few questions asked, that's for sure. Although our coach was a very, very, very good pass player, so not sure. There would be too many questions. But, yeah, it's. You can take as many guesses as you want. But, yeah, it's just hard to know, isn't it? Like, it's. You just don't. You're just guessing. [00:40:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. It is. And I mean, you know, assumptions make the fool's all, but now I just want to. I want to see that happen now. I don't care what traditional sport it is. I just want to see some coach be like, screw this. I'm going in myself. Even better for you, I would say. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Like a team manager on an f one team. Like, fuck you, Verstappen. I'm driving the fucking car. [00:40:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Christian horner back. Hey, he used to drive, but like a high school coach. [00:41:04] Speaker C: Here we go. Here we go. So I just, I just googled. I said, has a manager ever substituted themselves onto the pitch? I'm sure we. And someone said, I'm sure we all know about the time Harry Redknapp substituted a fan onto the pitch. [00:41:20] Speaker A: What? Okay, what sport? [00:41:25] Speaker C: I'm assuming it's. Can only assume that it's football or. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Soccer has to be. Yeah. [00:41:30] Speaker B: Oh, there was an ice hockey one, too, actually. [00:41:33] Speaker C: Graham Souness, on his Rangers debut as player manager, subbed himself on and almost instantly got sent off with a red card. Okay, that sounds like it's potentially on the take. [00:41:47] Speaker A: Yeah, that seems a bit awkward. [00:41:50] Speaker C: It seems like there's been a fair few. I don't know in what context, but it seemed like people are. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Yeah, there was one that happened. I'm trying to find the full story, but it was like. It was an ice hockey game where, like, the teams, like, all their goalies got injured and there's, like, some obscure rule that you could, like, bring in a fan to be the goalie, and there was, like, some ex player in the crowd who hadn't played in, like, six years, and they just, like, threw him in there. [00:42:17] Speaker C: So apparently Glenn hoddle for Chelsea, I don't know what year, subbed himself on for Chelsea in the 68th minute of the FA cup final with Chelsea. Two nil down to Man United, and then Chelsea went on to lose four. [00:42:33] Speaker A: Nils. [00:42:35] Speaker B: That's what it was. It was David Ayers in. Yeah, 2020. Both Carolina Hurricanes goaltenders got injured. He was there. He signed a one day contract, came in with 841 left in the second period and. [00:42:49] Speaker C: Wait, how long did you say that contract was? [00:42:51] Speaker A: One day. [00:42:51] Speaker B: One day. [00:42:52] Speaker A: How much did you get paid? [00:42:54] Speaker B: Oh, I don't know. [00:42:55] Speaker A: That's the question. I mean, wait, and he held on. [00:42:58] Speaker B: He gave up two goals straight away, but then shut it down and they won the game. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Hell, yeah. Let's go, buddy. [00:43:03] Speaker B: There you go. [00:43:04] Speaker A: I mean, to bring it back to esports, there is. There are definitely a decent amount of, like, player coaches out there. [00:43:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:10] Speaker A: Like, in dota especially. That's, like, a big thing where, like, they don't have a coach, so their coach is kind of in the game with them, and that's, like, coming becoming a bit more common. There's also just a lot of ODT teams that don't have coaches that need them. [00:43:26] Speaker C: Well, we've seen recently as well, we've seen very recent transitions into coaches, like, as a matter of days after a split ends. Yeah, two examples. Benvy Ben v straight away. Swiper as well. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And Swiper was already a coach and. [00:43:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:42] Speaker A: From what I've heard, Swiper wanted to be a coach, but things didn't line. [00:43:45] Speaker C: Up well because he lane swapped as well. So, yeah, that was. That was a complete, like. [00:43:50] Speaker A: Yeah, and, like, rocket league is good coach already. [00:43:54] Speaker B: Like, you could argue that was mock's trajectory. Ahomi was another one who retired and went straight to AIPAC to coach Luna. I think Lunar's tried to retire multiple times to do coaching and casting. [00:44:04] Speaker A: Tried to retire. Do we see Luna again or is he. Is he coaching or casting? What's. [00:44:10] Speaker B: I don't know. He was in the twitch chat today saying that tins should replace me. So I think he's still, you know, still around. Yeah, I know what he's doing. [00:44:19] Speaker C: Well, he scrims. He scrimmed with Laxan and Keckles today. [00:44:22] Speaker A: Yes. [00:44:24] Speaker C: Against KCP. [00:44:25] Speaker B: So he is, I think, the most underrated player in oce plays a role. That's for sure. [00:44:32] Speaker A: He's got hands, right? [00:44:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I will say it. I will go on that limb and say he is easily the most underrated player. Like, instant improvement to any roster he's put on to. [00:44:42] Speaker A: Sort of go back to the conversation we were having earlier. It's kind of like Luna feels like one of those players where if there was more legitimacy in the sort of tier two, tier three space, like, he would be given. He would be giving it more of himself to, like, get better and then get to pro. [00:44:58] Speaker B: Knowing his personality, I don't. I think Jar would know his personality more, but for my interactions with him, I think he just needs that coach to keep him focused on one goal. [00:45:06] Speaker A: Yeah, fair enough. [00:45:07] Speaker B: He needs. He needs. He needs something to keep him one track, one go. Because he get, from what I understand is he's the type of player who will hyper focus and drive, drive, drive, drive, and over the course of like, five, six months, he will focus on being that best rocket league player you will ever see, and then he will shift that focus to something else, like coaching. [00:45:27] Speaker C: It also doesn't help when we have a six month off season that that's tough. Yeah, that's. That really doesn't help. [00:45:35] Speaker A: All right, let's. Let's get space jump going, going into stay. [00:45:39] Speaker B: Space jumps happen in scrims world. You know, there's gonna be more things coming from there. Coming up. I'm hoping Arlo can get back in the scene because they held down that. [00:45:49] Speaker C: Flag for a while, but it's always a good time. [00:45:52] Speaker B: Yeah. One last thing, though. Before we move on to League of Legends, I want to point out something that's kind of really cool. That is worth the shout. I don't know any other esport right now that will have, like, a major event and have the top four, like the semifinals, four different regions. [00:46:11] Speaker C: That's so good. [00:46:13] Speaker B: That is so sick. Actually, the fact that you know, Sam and Mina each got a team in the top four. I wish there was oce, don't get me wrong. I reckon we could take furious spot even though they beat vitality, but, um, like, I don't know, I think that's really, really cool. [00:46:27] Speaker C: So just good for the game. [00:46:29] Speaker B: It's really good. It's so good for the game. I just wish, you know, we had an Na or an EU. Like, sam has Na and Mina has EU to practice with. We need one of those, right, to help. Help us keep up. [00:46:42] Speaker A: Fellows have the advantage. But I also think that there's a reason that rocket league gets to do this is because you only need three dudes. So, like, you just kind of pick up a lot of teams really quickly. Like, space jump spins up, like, what, like 16 teams out of complete randoms and. Yes, like, most of them aren't competitive, but, like, we can do it. So it's not difficult to put together three people and place in rocket League. [00:47:04] Speaker C: Yeah, the other. The other question as well that's going to be on everyone's mind is whether or not we're going to get a Lan in Oce. And I feel like the answer is probably no. [00:47:16] Speaker B: I think it's no. [00:47:17] Speaker A: We have to make that happen. [00:47:18] Speaker C: The only reason I say that is because the expenditure to send everyone so far across the world, like, it's just. I think it's unsustainable to send, like you said, like, three players and a coach from a team from AIPAC and Oce, like, sending them that far is not too bad because you're dealing with 15 people. [00:47:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:39] Speaker C: Rather than hundreds of people. Like, I just. I think that's the reality, unfortunately. [00:47:44] Speaker B: It's also an unfortunate reality. Why? I think even though I think our oce caster pool is top freaking tier, it's always only going to be CJ. [00:47:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Get back to worlds. [00:47:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I have a. I'm not. I'm not at that level. [00:48:00] Speaker A: Yeah, you. You totally are. [00:48:01] Speaker C: If we're on the. If we're. If we're on the Caster talk and we're moving on to League of Legends, we will. How good. How good is our LCO casting team? I reckon that. I reckon they're probably the best. [00:48:13] Speaker A: I mean, pike kills us. He's so good. [00:48:16] Speaker C: I reckon they're all. [00:48:16] Speaker B: No, but no bias here. No, no. PI is here. Having worked with him now for, like, a little over a year, pike kicks ass. [00:48:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Love. Love pike. Like, we'll never not have time for that, dude. And I'm pleasantly surprised by tally. Like, he's. [00:48:29] Speaker C: Tally's been good. It's good insight. Like, play insight. [00:48:32] Speaker A: Yeah. The improvement from, like. Cause he's always had the insight, but his, like, actual casting has improved. Like, week in, week out to the point where, like, he's just great now. [00:48:40] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's. That's the thing that I found. So I don't. I don't know much about the game. I'm still. I'm still learning about the game. I don't play it. But the thing I found with OC casting or LCO casting is that they explain it in ways that a lot of people can understand. I mean, lck, etc. Etc. Is very specific, but I struggle to follow along with their. With their casting. Like, it. It's way in depth is not the right way to put it, but it's more specific in. Into what you're watching. [00:49:14] Speaker B: I wonder if, like, bringing skimmy in then, like, when they initially did as someone who wasn't, like, the most familiar with the game, if that actually played to that strength of him kind of learning the game alongside the audience that they could be looking to explain it to for at least new viewers I worked out. [00:49:29] Speaker A: I feel like casting, like, a play by play caster who doesn't know the game is my personal nightmare. Like, that's a hell I live in when I close my eyes. And I'm glad I don't have to deal with that on the ODT because I have dealt with that before. So, like, I feel like he would have had to have just smashed some. Like, he would have had to study like crazy before he. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Can I. Can I make a counterpoint? Working with someone doing color who doesn't know the game is even worse than the play by play. Okay. [00:50:02] Speaker A: Oh, God. And that sounds worse. I think a play by play can muddle through it. And, like, you. You don't. [00:50:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you work with me, man. [00:50:10] Speaker A: Dude, no, don't do that. But let's. Let's actually move on. Um, because we are. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Dude, I put every caster I work with through that, man. What do you think? He's always going after me. [00:50:23] Speaker A: Your shit. What makes you so good? And you're also an absolute student of the game of casting. [00:50:28] Speaker C: I don't know. Everyone in the. Everyone in OC will probably say differently with. With some of formal's hot takes. [00:50:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:39] Speaker A: But let's move on because we've got a big one to cover. And this is actually super relevant to you guys in ground zero. It's super relevant to everyone. The post has been put up. I'm going to open up myself to refresh my memory, but there are big changes happening to lol esports in 2025. Oh my God. The link doesn't work. I need to find it again. But yeah, basically there's to give a quick rundown of the changes. There's now going to be some regions to get merged now, as I understand it, there's going to be a top level league added to the top of the region that we live in, Oceania, including also Southeast Asia and Japan being rolled into it as well. Alongside Vietnam will be AIPAC. So that's big. There's going to be a bunch of teams sent to AIPAC from there and we'll talk about that. That's happening as well in North America, and there's going to be three major events in the year. One of them is going to have fearless draft and we'll talk about that later. But I mean, you guys have had a chance to have a quick skim over the changes, I imagine. What are your initial thoughts? I mean, formal? [00:51:46] Speaker B: I think for League of Legends, it's going to be more exciting for the global viewer. For Oce, we're a little bit screwed, aren't we? I mean, I just, it's going back to like, wanting to invest in this game and I don't know, I'd be more curious on jars take on this one, but to me, it feels like it's going to be even more difficult now for orgs to want to commit to this game with the tougher path to get to like the higher level to get more eyes on us, especially considering how expensive having a league of Legends team is playing in the LCO is compared to the other esports in Ocdena. [00:52:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it. I think it's going to depend, especially for brand deals, et cetera, sponsorships. I think it's going to be what eyes are actually on, like what are the broadcasts getting, what are, and that's not something that we can answer until it happens. Right? Like how, how popular is this thing actually going to be? I think from a player's perspective, again, like, we touched on the Rocket league with guys getting opportunity overseas and how much that'll develop us as a region. I think it's great because the competition is going to be better, so therefore, hopefully we get better as players and as a region. But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting. It'd be interesting to see how it actually all unfolds. [00:53:06] Speaker B: I mean, the big thing is, like, what's happening with LCO? Because does LCO then become a feeder series to get into this league? [00:53:12] Speaker A: That's my understanding. So the link to the original story, which was initially called building towards a brighter future, is down. So I'm just reading this from sheep esports, which is apparently the only place you can find this. But they've said eight teams, and in my head I'm kind of thinking, okay, so that means you're feeding. It's LCo, PCs, VC's and LJL. That's two teams each. Right. And they've said that the. Your performance in the playoffs of this year's PCs now matters. So I assume that whoever we send to PCs is probably just in this thing for next year they haven't clarified at all. But to me that makes the most sense, because if you're going to be operating this league and you want every. You want it to be, you want to capture the most market, right? So why wouldn't you send two of each teams? And that means that in the short term, yes, it's going to be uncompetitive, but like you said, jarved, eventually it's going to even out and these Oce players are going to be playing as better competition, which means that everyone just gets better. [00:54:21] Speaker B: Just because. Doesn't it go back, though, to like, I guess the previous concerns, though, because, like, for order for it to be sustainable, at least in Oceania, we still would need that solid feeder series into it, and we still need people to have to care about it. [00:54:32] Speaker C: Yeah, that's the thing. If it's. If it's. If whoever's getting into this league is based off PCs results or we just never, like they say, we get an oce slot, but we do. We just never get an ocelot or what. [00:54:42] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's like, a lot of people have said that that was the immediate, like, doom and gloom that came from. Because we're used to just getting screwed. Right? Yeah, but my gut tells me because the reason that Dave exists, the reason that ESL has had to do Oce, is because it's been such a risky market to capture for riot and not to get too deep in the business and into the reads of that, but this kind of lets them bypass that where they can actually have a way to tap into the market in a more safe way. So you. You'd totally want those two Oce teams in there, or at least just the one. [00:55:20] Speaker C: I wonder how. How AIPAC in general would react to the underdog story, because everyone in Oce loves an underdog story. Right. I wonder if they jump on that bandwagon as well the entire. [00:55:30] Speaker B: But the thing is they have a lot of underdogs to choose from. I mean you have like if there's two japanese teams coming in, there's another underdog there. I almost feel bad for like both the vietnamese league and like the current PCs league. Those two leagues were cut above Japan, like the LJL and us. So there's kind of going to be. Yeah, it feels like there's going to be a. It's going to be very top heavy, at least initially. And I just feel bad for like the number three or the number four team out of like the VC's because in another world they would actually be right up there competing for that chance to get to like an MSI or get to a worlds because you know, the gap is much smaller. But now they might not even get that opportunity because of this new format. So it's, it's. Again, I think it's great for the global audience because they're going to have like this whole new region of like higher, tougher competition. But for like these individual smaller regions, it's just, it becomes so much more top heavy and so much harder barrier of entry. I do worry about the longevity of that. [00:56:30] Speaker C: It'd be very interesting to get a player's perspective as well. [00:56:34] Speaker B: Yes. [00:56:34] Speaker C: Yeah, that would be the most interesting thing to hear. What a player thinks about it, about the opportunity, I guess the difference of differing opinions between business, actual player. [00:56:47] Speaker B: Gotta reach out to corporal again, see if we can get him on because he had, he has experience with the LJL and, you know, OC various leagues here. [00:56:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:57] Speaker B: He'd be the one to ask. [00:56:58] Speaker A: I think the player perspective that I'd most want to hear is someone like, someone like chirp who's a on the up and up. Like this is a player who probably could make it to internationals but isn't quite there yet. Like how are they feeling about this sort of stuff? Like they're getting buried under what will now be APEC and what will probably be, let's be honest, it'll either be ground zero antic or who's the other team that's doing really well right now in the LCO? Thank you. Yeah, like it'll be one of those three that goes. Probably two of them if it's going to be the two. So if you're a player on like a fury or a mammoth, you feel like you're just getting buried even more. [00:57:38] Speaker C: Is your career over before it's even started sort of thing. [00:57:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, do you have to play to prove that you're good enough to be on ground zero or antic now? [00:57:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Evelyn would be another one to ask if we. On topic with crowd zero here. Yeah, Evelyn. Sorry, not Evelyn. Yeah, I got trouble for that. [00:58:00] Speaker A: We got in trouble for that all season. Um. What a monster of a player, though. Yeah. But, um, the other thing I suppose we could talk about is fearless draft. I'm curious because I know, um, that is going to be popping up more and more. Um, we are going. I like firsthand experience. Okay. All right. [00:58:20] Speaker B: I like it. [00:58:21] Speaker A: I'm an ante. And I want to hear formal. What's the argument? [00:58:27] Speaker B: Uh, more varied champion pool, more interesting games. Don't care about Conte. Competitive integrity. Don't care about, you know, only wanting to see the best. I want chaos. That, for me, is entertainment. [00:58:38] Speaker A: Fair enough. [00:58:38] Speaker B: Purely entertainment argument. [00:58:40] Speaker A: Okay, Joe. [00:58:42] Speaker C: It'll probably widen the skill gap, especially if players have such a small champ rule. Like, it'll force them to expand. So I think the skill gap will probably get a little bit wider. The players that have a larger chance will probably, well, I guess, naturally succeed a bit more. But having said that, though, it'll force people to learn more about the game, which is never a bad thing. [00:59:03] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not too bad. [00:59:05] Speaker B: I mean, think of the cheese straps. [00:59:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:07] Speaker A: So here's the thing, right? That's. I'm coming around. I can say that. Like, forcing people to play more. More champions. Sure. But here's my whole argument, all right? It's. What year was it? 2019. T. No. Who was it? It was Rockstigers versus SKT, game two. So game one, Zyra Ash, obviously strongest combo in the game was winning every single match up to that point. Zaira Ashe gets locked in by SKT in game one. In game two, they pick miss Fortune early, or they pick the ash early, and then they lock in miss Fortune against it in the support role. And this completely throws the game into disarray because Miss Fortune is suddenly revealed to be the most insane, out of the box counter to Zyra that you could possibly get. And being played in an off role, being played in support. Like, no one saw this coming. So rocks have cooked this up, they've thrown it down and it works. Then I think t one for the next game, I believe they leave it up again and they lose to it again. So for the rest of the series and the rest of the tournament, misfortune is just perma banned against rocks. To me, that's like one of the most interesting stories that has ever come out of Lol esports. And it's purely just come from the draft. And that's where I look at, like, fearless draft and I go, man, like, we just lose that straight away. You get that pick once and then it just goes away. [01:00:33] Speaker B: But then you also get, like, you get a gain in other way, though, because I think you're going to get more situations where you kind of get, like, these breakout surprise roles. Maybe you don't get that same sort of on the spot adaptation for that actual series, but you'll get adaptations throughout the tournament. If, like, someone in an earlier round all of a sudden busts out, you know, Aurelion Sol jungle, and that becomes that next op thing. Now all of a sudden, in future matches, how do the other teams play around it? So I think, yeah, it might diminish from that individual series, but I think as a tournament meta evolves with this draft, things get very interesting. [01:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah. The other thing I think about is, like, super op picks because they're always going to exist in League of Legends. [01:01:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:13] Speaker A: So things like get them out of the way. [01:01:16] Speaker B: Game one. Yeah. [01:01:17] Speaker A: Like I said, like, really, silas, do you just, do you just let it go and then you lose that game and then shrug your shoulders and move on? Like, that just feels bad to me. Maybe it's just the analyst in me that, like, hates it, but the analyst. [01:01:31] Speaker B: In you now has so many new avenues and ways to discuss, like, you have this, you know, pocket pick or comfort pick that, you know, a character is good at. What game do you bust it out? Do you wait too long and it gets banned away so you don't get that chance. Like, it turns into almost a game of poker and sort of like, you know, the picks that you have is your poker hand. And when do you play? What? I don't know. I'm not good at poker. But, like, I feel like it opens the door for so much more. I don't see it as restrictive as all. I see it as, like, expanding. [01:02:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess we'll see, like, it's, it's going to happen for at least one of these international events, so it'll be interesting to see, like, what it actually looks like. I I just, I hear what you're saying and I think we're going to have to see, but it's, it, to me, it feels like we lose stuff in individual series, and I think about the prestige of, like, an individual series and how the draft can grow and evolve. And when you're just throwing everything out. [01:02:23] Speaker B: Each game, what happens if like a team goes crazy, right? And just only ban supports and we get to game five and there are no more supports left? [01:02:33] Speaker A: I think it's only picks that matter. [01:02:34] Speaker B: Oh that's, yeah, so like if you, okay, it should be bad as well. Yeah, that's where I will draw. It should be pics and bands. Every game you lose 20 characters off the roster. So by the time we get to game five, people. Exactly. [01:02:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know, I'm, we'll have to say outlooks. [01:02:59] Speaker B: You only have two, you only have two junglers, you only have two mid laners left at the end. Okay. You can either play Talon or Lux. Which one are you going? [01:03:09] Speaker C: Yeah, you guys have, you guys have lost me for the last ten minutes. I usually, just, when I'm in twitch chat on the LCO and they're doing draft, I normally just to peep the twitch chat and people are going, GZ lost draft or they won draft. [01:03:24] Speaker A: Oh, there are some golf, I'm frantically. [01:03:27] Speaker C: Messaging benvy going like, what are we doing here? [01:03:30] Speaker A: What have we done? [01:03:32] Speaker C: What's going on here? [01:03:34] Speaker B: How have we already lost? [01:03:37] Speaker C: And then someone will pipe up in twitch chat going like, oh, I know, some, some bettor or something will hype up with something and I can't help myself but respond. That's as extensive as my league of legends experience goes. [01:03:53] Speaker A: No, it's rude. So here's the matter, right? I'm trying to establish it, but my post get deleted when the original post gets deleted, but I've just copied the gambling helpline number. And whenever someone asks how many kills someone has, I'm like, oh yeah, it's this many. [01:04:08] Speaker C: And I just, a few of our players have sent through in our Discord channel like some direct messages that they've. [01:04:15] Speaker A: Gotten, oh my God, really? [01:04:16] Speaker C: From people from, from bettos and stuff, man. It's, it's so similar. Like we get them as well as players. Yeah, it's, some of, it's so funny. [01:04:25] Speaker A: That's insane. [01:04:26] Speaker C: What? [01:04:26] Speaker A: Like they're like really mad because some. [01:04:28] Speaker C: Kills, yeah, they're so mad that someone's either not gotten enough kills or they've lost them a bet or something. [01:04:34] Speaker B: Like have you gotten like the angry russian gambler? Oh yeah, throwing games. Oh yeah, those are my favorite. [01:04:41] Speaker C: Absolutely. I've gotten, people send me their bank details saying, you owe me the money that I've just lost. Yes. [01:04:48] Speaker B: So the brief time I was like acting as a rocket league manager for Esper. Oh, no. It was the CS team. It was the CS team. Sorry. It wasn't the rocket league team. It was the CS team. It, like, some random, like, two k nothing tournament. And we got that from some angry russian guy, like, accusing the management of intentionally throwing the match so he would personally lose, like, six k on it. Like, more money than what the prize pool of the actual event was. [01:05:13] Speaker A: That is absurd. Like, I see these messages all the time, and my first thought is, like, I'm. I'm posting that gambling helpline thing for a reason, dude. Because, like, if you're gambling on a thing that you don't understand, like, if you. If you think that, like, someone. If you're betting on, like, a support getting a bunch of kills because you see that KDA is good or something, like, I don't want to tell you, man, like, you've got a problem. Yeah, like, that's. That's rough, actually. [01:05:42] Speaker B: That, you know, that would be a fun conversation. Maybe we'll save that one for later because I think we're running short on time. I'd love to just go deeper into gambling in esports. Yeah, I think that is a fascinating conversation. [01:05:52] Speaker A: It's interesting because, like, there's some games that lean right into it, like cs and dota, and they tend to have more, like, adult, mature audiences. I guess they do. [01:06:00] Speaker B: And they also, when you look at oce, they're cs. Arguably, I think, is the strongest esport in Australia. [01:06:07] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Like, this is a CS country. [01:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:10] Speaker A: And we'll definitely have to bring some cs people on the show. Maybe. Maybe we can get elfish or someone on the show, but just to, I guess, wrap this up. I think my. [01:06:20] Speaker B: The other thought I had, you flam. [01:06:22] Speaker A: Sorry. [01:06:23] Speaker B: I could get you flam. I don't know if I could help get you outfits, but I could get you. [01:06:27] Speaker A: We'll get someone. Maybe, like, there's heaps out there. Yeah. Just to bring this back to the changes of league and how this affects, especially oce, something that's near and dear to our heart is the ODT. Right. And I feel like, if nothing else, this really pushes again back to that idea of, like, we need to legitimize the tier two tier three spaces and, like, we need to do so much more as, like, when I say meet, we. I mean, like, you and me, max, but also, like, everyone who works on that product and then, like, the teams, as well need to actually recognize, like, ODT or whatever ODT replacement we come up with in like, x amount of years and, like, make that a big thing. It needs to be a big deal because we need players coming up to. Are going to be looking for that aspirational angle of, like, getting to APAC. [01:07:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Players need a reason to be motivated. [01:07:20] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [01:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:22] Speaker B: And I think, you know, to go back to the start, one of the reasons why traditional sport is so popular as it is, like, the motivation is that you see it there. Like, the fact that, like, you. Your goal is on tv every night. Right. It's. It's. It's obtainable. You're constantly reminded there. It's. It's one of the reason why I love sport as well. Like, it's because of how accessible it is. And I just love competition. I love thriving to be the best and all that good stuff. So it's just like, I. I think a tv deal, especially for a game like Rocket league, could you, like, you wonder. [01:07:57] Speaker A: Sure. [01:07:58] Speaker B: It would do wonders, man. And I think it would be popular as well. I know SBS tried it back when they had like, a deal with the LPL. Like the New Zealand, let's play live. But the problem is they were like, showing the games at midnight. [01:08:10] Speaker A: Yeah, that won't do it. Yeah, I suppose that's. [01:08:14] Speaker C: That's the only slot that they would be able to afford. [01:08:16] Speaker B: I guess someone needs to take the risk on it. [01:08:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:08:19] Speaker B: And it will do. Well, I mean, I. I. I believe that maybe it's because, like, you know, I'm biased or what have you, but I feel like if there was a tv or willing to take that risk on Rocket league specifically. I know you love League of Legends. Weapon. [01:08:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I'm not gonna debate that. [01:08:37] Speaker B: Rocket league. [01:08:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:40] Speaker B: The mainstream audience. [01:08:41] Speaker A: Football in Netanyahu. Good. [01:08:42] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:08:44] Speaker A: We're actually watching the. My partner and I were watching the. The major games together and like, my partners never watched Rocket League before in their life and they were getting into it because. [01:08:55] Speaker C: Blue score. [01:08:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's really good. [01:08:58] Speaker B: Oh, did you, did. Are you watching now with like, the full live crowd too and how. [01:09:03] Speaker A: No, actually I'm seeing any of that. Just recap. [01:09:05] Speaker B: Especially the London major. You got to watch the finals tonight. It's going to. Especially if the Falcons. That Falcons match versus gentle mates. I think that they're going to blow the roof off. That's that semifinal. That's going to be. [01:09:22] Speaker C: Yeah, that'll be a big one. Yeah. [01:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a couple boxes. Good. Good venue, too. [01:09:27] Speaker B: Oh, the box is great. Like, that is that is the Rocket league holy ground. [01:09:30] Speaker A: Oh, nice. Okay. The Cathedral of Rocket league, if you will. [01:09:33] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:09:34] Speaker A: All right, let's. Let's move on. We've got a couple of quick news stories we want to cover, stuff that's happened in the past couple of weeks or so. I'll bring you these every week. And, yeah, any comments on these ones, guys? Jump right in. So, first off, and we'll take it in turns. Max and Jarrah, if you want to jump in, jump in after max, like, in terms of reading the headlines, but, yeah, first one is so ti qualifications. We've got heroic beast coast nouns, and g two ig, which, by the way, is actually both teams. So g two and their Chinese.org ig working in partnership, so they play out of China. Ladies seems qualified for ti, and we still got a lot more to see in terms of teams who are going to qualify, and we're going to talk about one of those in a second. But, yeah, Ti is coming, and we are absolutely 100% going to get grizz from our sister show in Ogre when it comes time for ti discussions. Hopefully we can get Nat before she flies away. We'll see. But, yeah, I'm keen for it. I don't know if you guys are big dota fans, but the game is so stupid. [01:10:40] Speaker B: I think everyone who follows esports watches ti. [01:10:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:45] Speaker B: Like, it's. You don't even need to know anything about Dota. It's just such a spectacle. Right. So I'll be. I'll be watching the final day, for sure. [01:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah. It's always huge, and it's like, it's the money tournament, right? Like, everyone knows the pay packet. It's massive. [01:11:00] Speaker B: Is it, um. Is it still been going massive? Because I thought it kind of dipped a bit. I think I could be wrong. [01:11:06] Speaker A: Maybe it's not like, at the level it was in previous years, but it's still probably the richest tournament in esports still. [01:11:12] Speaker B: Where's the ground zero dota team? [01:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah. When do we get it? [01:11:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know. [01:11:16] Speaker A: We actually really want to do dota for space jump. Not to. Not to leak anything, but we really want to do it. Me and. [01:11:23] Speaker B: Are there even any australian dota teams left? [01:11:25] Speaker A: People play it, but they play on sea, so it's really hard to tell. [01:11:29] Speaker C: Hmm. [01:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:32] Speaker B: I don't know, man. Like, I would be great to see. Don't get me wrong. My mobile love is there, but, like, dota is just one of those games that I. It just feels Dota and Starcraft, man. They just don't feel like they exist here. What, they should. [01:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And they should. It's sad. Move on. [01:11:47] Speaker B: Moving on. Oh, that's me, isn't it? Yeah. Some counter strike news. Team spirit looking pretty dang good. Got the three one win over Navi at that most recent spring final. That blast, Premier League blast, you know, taking over every esport slowly but surely, and had some pretty good wins for them. Knocked off vitality before taking down Navi. Three one. So congrats to them continuing their hot run. And you know what? I don't see them slowing down anytime soon. [01:12:20] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I mean, so if you haven't been following Cs, the man is Donk is the guy you want to. You want to be talking about. Dude's been. He just came out of nowhere. Completely insane. We've had a couple of, like, young guys come up in cs. So Donk is one of them from. From Russia, then Manesi or Monashi, who plays for g two, is just an absolutely absurd awper. So, like, young talent is coming up in Cs. It's really cool to see. And they're, like, getting the top spots consistently. It's really sick. [01:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it is exciting. I'm just, you know, I'm always going to be a little bit sad whenever we don't get in, you know, oc in top eight. So he's avoiding it. But I don't even think, like, I don't even know any OC teams that even made any deep runs in this one, if I'm not mistaken. Like, this was a very un australian event. [01:13:08] Speaker A: Yeah, this one's different because it's blast and I think that's only EU. But we do have iem. Sorry. Intel, extreme masters. Just the regular season pro league. ESL. Pro league is coming up. [01:13:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:21] Speaker A: And that will have flyquest and a couple of other APaC teams, I think. I want to say roosters have qualified, so that will be cool. And I'm definitely going to be watching that. If you guys haven't watched any of it, like, I recommend watching the Flyquest games because, oh, flyquest is great. [01:13:37] Speaker B: I did watch the fly quest game. Don't get me wrong, dude. [01:13:39] Speaker A: Like, I have never been more hype watching esports in, like, the past couple of years than I have watching flyquest. Actually, like, take it to some of the international teams. It's been sick. [01:13:51] Speaker C: Feel free to cover this one weapon. You can cover this one. [01:13:54] Speaker A: Easy, easy. Okay, so this is actually really. I read this story and I did a double take, and it's actually happened. So amaranthe, who. I know. We all know who she is. [01:14:09] Speaker C: No, for the viewers, I mean, I don't know. [01:14:12] Speaker A: You actually don't. Okay. Okay. First, so amaranth is a streamer who kind of pioneered the gamer girl bath. Gamer girl bathwater hot tub. Like, be. Being mostly unclothed while streaming and, like, that. [01:14:25] Speaker B: She is the hot tub streamer. [01:14:26] Speaker A: She is the hot substrate. And, like, that. That's sick. Like, I don't watch it, but, like. [01:14:30] Speaker C: Like, seem to know a lot about it, man. [01:14:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And, like, rad, dude. Like, do live your truth. Do what you want to do. Like, whether you're a person who does it or watches it, that's. That's so cool and whatever, but she's made shit tons of money doing this, and she's bought gas stations, and most recently, she's bought a stake in wild card esports, which is notable because she's actually the latest in a bunch of people who are doing this. So we've got disguised toast, who has disguised esports. There's moist, which I don't know who that is. [01:15:03] Speaker B: Moist. Critical, Charles. [01:15:04] Speaker A: Critical. Of course. Yes. Yeah. So moist esports, and most recently, actually, Brandon Sanderson, the Sci-Fi sorry, Sci-Fi fantasy writer, has started a team which is now playing in the North American Challengers League for League of Legends, which I think they have a cool last name, like Dragonsteel. So maybe this is the answer for oce, actually, we need, like, a mid beast, like, ODT team or something. [01:15:32] Speaker B: If mid beast would have done it, he would have done it a while ago. I don't see that happening now. We know. [01:15:36] Speaker A: Who else do we get? [01:15:38] Speaker B: Someone who comes to Australia, sees how great this country is from America. Like I did. [01:15:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:42] Speaker B: And then just, like, full on commits. [01:15:44] Speaker A: Jai, do you guys have people like ground zero? Influencers, actually, Khan, if you guys do. [01:15:51] Speaker C: We do. Well, we have not so much influencers. More content creators. Yeah, we've got a few, but no one. That's probably something that we'd want to get into, actually. [01:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:03] Speaker C: Get someone on board, which would be cool. But, yeah, none spoilers. No. No one as of yet. [01:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I think we need that. Like, I can't think of anyone who's massive enough to really prompt a lot of interest. Maybe a barjo starts a team or something. We need that, actually. [01:16:22] Speaker B: Wait, hold on. Ground zero is Perth with the. How ridiculous guys are from Perth as well. They've got. [01:16:26] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, the. [01:16:28] Speaker B: How ridiculous. Ground zero. [01:16:30] Speaker A: ODT team sports team. Yeah, we need the. How ridiculous guys doing. Doing, like, content with the ODT team. [01:16:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:40] Speaker B: I don't know if they would go for. I have no idea. But, you know, it's. It's. It's there. I mean, it's interesting, too, because to me, it's like the move from more content creators and away from athletes because remember before when, like, every NBA player was, like, picking up, being, like, a major sponsor for an LCS team? [01:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, with the contentification of everything is something that we've talked about a lot and we hate as casters where, like, you kind of have to be a content creator and, like, people who are really good at that and already have and have, like, the drive to do it, like, our good friend Jim pike will succeed because they get to show their personality. But, like, you and I are just. It's not us. [01:17:25] Speaker B: What are we doing now? [01:17:26] Speaker A: I mean, we're doing it. Yeah, we're creating content. But, like, maybe this is. I think the interesting thing about this is kind of takes away from the need to have your players be content creators because your manager, the face of your company, is, like, already an influencer. So it's an interesting, like, way to tackle creating fandom. [01:17:47] Speaker B: It is, but, like, it hasn't. It depends on the person as well, because I go back to quadrant, right? Like, they had a rocket League team that was Lando Norris's team. [01:17:55] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:17:56] Speaker B: Unfortunately, Lando Norris never really stepped up to be that. Like, he showed up to a couple majors, gave some talks, but then never committed to it. So I guess an influencer, though, is better than an f one driver. And maybe that's why, you know, having already established streamers is better than athletes. But I could see that one. It has to be. It has to be someone dedicated to the cause. And even if you, like, look at what, like, toast and stuff has said, like, they're losing money on these. Even voice critical saying the same thing. Like, it's not like they're maintaining money. So that's great. It helps the economy survive. But at the end of the day, these are just passion projects for these guys. And I don't know if that's the long term solution. [01:18:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's going to be a shot in the arm, but, um. Yeah, this one's kind of weird. We got one last story. Can I. Shall I get you a takeaway? Read it out. [01:18:44] Speaker B: All right, I'll do it. Let's see what's going on here. More dota news with OG facing disqualification from, you know, ti due to the birth of Seb's child. Never mind. They just got eliminated, regardless, by Na'vi youth. But still spooky. Still spooky that childbirth can result in disqualification there. That's not ever an ideal thing. [01:19:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And, ja, you've been a bit quiet while we've gone through these news stories. This is one I think we can bring you in on, because, basically, the situation, right, is we've got a veteran player who's, I think I mentioned before, whole ass dude, whole ass wife, whole ass child being born, and he's decided to stick to playing esports, and. And the rule set for the tournament that he's playing in doesn't allow him to sub out even if he's having a whole ass baby. So, like, we need to. Obviously, like, the. The short answer here is we need to start making concessions for, like, people to have lives outside of esports. Right? [01:19:50] Speaker C: How many times does this actually happens? Is this. Is this the first time this has ever sort of happened in the esports space? [01:19:56] Speaker A: No. Like, definitely not. There was a case recently, so CS was a different thing. [01:20:03] Speaker C: What, out of interest, happened in that scenario? [01:20:06] Speaker A: So I'm talking about Dupree from the team he was on at the time, having a kid. He just was able to take time off, and his team just facilitated him. So, like, that was fine because it was a different rule set, and maybe that's cs just being different, but this is notable in that, like, this guy's life that he's allowed to have kind of got in the way of, like, what? What? Like, his team wanted to do well, and they can't. [01:20:32] Speaker C: Just, like, the rule set says that they can't use a sub. [01:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah, they couldn't use the sub, apparently, because it was for ti qualification. Seems insane, right? [01:20:41] Speaker C: I just thought it would be a blanket rule that you. If you have a sub, you can sub. No? [01:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:45] Speaker C: I mean, I feel like the solution. [01:20:47] Speaker B: To that is have subs be allowed in the rules. [01:20:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't tell you what the exact rule was, but apparently, like, PGL, who were hosting the qualifiers, were told exactly what was going to happen. They told that. They were told that there was going to be a kid, maybe. And then when the decision was made, they kind of let PGL have it on Twitter and across socials, and rightfully so, I think, because. [01:21:15] Speaker B: Well, again, I would need to know a bit more. I admittedly, I'm not the most inverse in this story, but I kind of feel like a. If teams are allowed subs and the team didn't provide a sub knowing that one of their players was probably going to be having a kid soon. I would put that on the team. [01:21:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so he's 32 years old. There we go. It's in the story. [01:21:35] Speaker B: There you go. [01:21:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:36] Speaker B: But, like, yeah, yeah. His wife currently having the first child. Like, I just. To me, it feels weird that the team's not allowed to sub that. That, to me, is the big question mark, and. But I don't know, being on the tournament admin side of things. Granted, for smaller offense, I've seen so many teams not submit a sub with their roster just not thinking, okay, and then on the day be like, oh, yeah, we've known about this. [01:22:05] Speaker C: Yeah. That I can understand. If they. If they. If they didn't actually have a sub. Like, that's understandable. But, I mean, if they would. If they were signed up or whatever, with a sub, I mean, when does common sense actually prevail? [01:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Like, the ruling there is just clearly wrong, and I'd love to know more about what happened, and we may just never know. [01:22:27] Speaker C: I mean, if there was. If there was more to the story, like, he was faking having a baby and it was just something ridiculous or, like, the absurdity, you know, he was. He was. It was, I don't know, some. Some sort of story that he didn't want to play and this person replacing him was a better fit or whatever. Like, that I can understand. But if he's legitimately having a baby and there's actually life events happening, I mean. Yeah. [01:22:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, the fact that this is a story, it should be a non story. It shouldn't have even come across our radar, but it is now. I do. I do want to quickly ask you guys on this subject. People having lives outside of esports, right? [01:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:02] Speaker A: Whole, like, let's say lCo and Rocket league scene. We can do both. We'll start with LCo because that's the ones I know. Who do you reckon the first guy to, like, have a kid in the lCO will be? [01:23:15] Speaker B: Does Carbon count? [01:23:17] Speaker A: No, let's not count Carbon. Who's doing it? Who's the first daddy? [01:23:23] Speaker C: Legitimately or accidentally? [01:23:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to say. Udisofthe? [01:23:31] Speaker A: I. Hmm. No. [01:23:35] Speaker B: Okay. [01:23:38] Speaker C: Mmm. That's a good question. [01:23:41] Speaker B: Swiper. [01:23:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah. [01:23:43] Speaker A: Swipers. Yeah. The. The no brainer older dude. [01:23:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:46] Speaker A: He also still counts as a player, I guess. I mean, there's due to it, like, in, like, really committed relationships. [01:23:52] Speaker B: Okay. You know, going, you know what I'm hot take. I'm going back to the SEB as well. When you have a kid, you're out. You're done. Sports career over. I think. I think the moment you have a kid, you are officially too mature. Having a kid automatically gives you the boomer mechanics. We were talking before. You're out. So I think Sab deserves to be disqualified. [01:24:13] Speaker A: Wow. [01:24:15] Speaker B: The team. [01:24:15] Speaker A: We literally just covered this and we decided it wasn't thing. [01:24:18] Speaker B: But no, I'm going realistically have a kid. [01:24:22] Speaker A: You're taking at least a year off, right? Probably more. [01:24:24] Speaker B: Yeah. You're. I know. Rocket league. The answer is Walcott. Dude has so much dad energy already. Like, I don't. [01:24:30] Speaker C: He's just, he's just not a player anymore. He just. [01:24:33] Speaker B: True. [01:24:33] Speaker C: All right, all right. [01:24:36] Speaker B: So actual players then. [01:24:37] Speaker A: Actual players. [01:24:38] Speaker B: I know. I don't want to play this game with Rocket league players. They're too young. X. X that. [01:24:42] Speaker A: No, we can move on for it because we do have just one segment left. We're gonna, we're gonna blast through it, which is just going to be a quick hit of what's happening in the next week. And the big one we're going to be talking about. Of course, we've already covered London major. It's happening tonight, which is the 23rd, at the 6th. So this will probably be all wrapped up by the time we put this to air, which will hopefully be in a couple of days. [01:25:05] Speaker C: Yes. Well played, falcons. [01:25:10] Speaker A: All right, so that's take one and what the other team that's going to make it to the finals? [01:25:16] Speaker B: G two. [01:25:17] Speaker A: All right. G two. So, yeah, nice one. G two. [01:25:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:19] Speaker A: Good job, ma. [01:25:22] Speaker B: Back on top. [01:25:23] Speaker A: And then we'll fix it up in post, of course, lco. And we want to get some predictions. So I've got the list of matches there. If you scroll on down on the run sheet, obviously we can skip over the ground zero ones because you know what you're going to say, Joe. Uh, but I mean, what are we guys feeling? We can go through them nice and quickly. Kanga versus fury. [01:25:46] Speaker C: One one. [01:25:47] Speaker A: Okay, nice. Yep. [01:25:49] Speaker B: Uh, I'll go two o kanga. [01:25:52] Speaker A: Two o kanga. I I feel like Kanga are due for a win. They gotta put it together. [01:25:59] Speaker B: I'm feeling nice. Okay. [01:26:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Very, very wholesome today. [01:26:03] Speaker B: I'm feeling. I feeling generous. [01:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you think fury with who was their top laner that they brought in in the last week? Oh, it was maple syrup. Yeah. [01:26:18] Speaker B: No. [01:26:18] Speaker A: Okay. Unfortunately, that's going to be a kanga win 20. [01:26:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I've got. Look, I just want to believe in Yoshin. I always believe in wooden. I think Kanga's a good team. [01:26:28] Speaker A: They can. [01:26:29] Speaker B: They have underperformed. [01:26:31] Speaker A: All right. [01:26:32] Speaker B: And they're due for some big one. [01:26:34] Speaker A: Antic versus team bliss. Who we got? [01:26:40] Speaker C: I'm going to team bliss. [01:26:42] Speaker A: Team bliss. Big. Okay. [01:26:44] Speaker B: I mean, that's. I I always hate picking against Zernos, but, like, the only top laner that I think I would go the other way with would be bio Panther. So I think duo Bliss is right. [01:26:58] Speaker A: Yeah, when you think. When you put it that way, I think I have to go team bliss as well. It's kind of pound to pound, right? Because. Yeah, it's 200. Team bliss. You're exactly right. Ja. Back. And your boys for ion versus ground zero. [01:27:13] Speaker C: Yep. [01:27:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:27:15] Speaker C: Yep. I want to see. I want to see some sort of. Honestly, some sort of crazy comp, like. [01:27:23] Speaker A: Yeah, more. [01:27:24] Speaker C: More of, like, the amumu picks. [01:27:26] Speaker A: Yeah. We want to say it at the fight weapon. [01:27:30] Speaker B: I want to know if you have the gall to take ion over ground zero with the way our ground zero has been playing and with jar here as well. [01:27:37] Speaker A: Yeah. My. My actual mate. You'll just. You'll be. [01:27:40] Speaker C: You'll be like everyone else. My heart praying on the downfall. [01:27:44] Speaker A: My heart says two o ion. My brain. [01:27:49] Speaker B: Okay. [01:27:50] Speaker A: Okay. My brain says that sticks is good enough to take at least one game because, like, that team is just all sticks right now. Dory. I don't know what's happening. He did. [01:27:59] Speaker C: He popped off last week. [01:28:01] Speaker A: Is a monster. I. So, fun fact. I'm gonna claim this one. Start of the season, when Razi was putting together that roster and he was looking at the ad role because that was the last one he had to. Had to look at. I was like, dude, it sticks. Like, what are you doing? Who else are you gonna pick for that role? It's. It's gonna be sticks. And he went with. Who'd he go with? Nebula. And now we're here. Sticks is in its rightful place, but, yeah, six is good enough to take one game. Hopefully, if Dora steps up, it could look like a 20, but it's gonna be one. One. [01:28:34] Speaker C: I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back. I'm sorry. I'm gonna go antic one. One. [01:28:40] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [01:28:42] Speaker C: Because I live for far, and I can. [01:28:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:28:44] Speaker C: Truly. [01:28:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. [01:28:45] Speaker C: That's. [01:28:46] Speaker B: That's legit. I'll. That's legit. [01:28:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:28:48] Speaker A: Sephora game has so much Aurora attached to it that it's understandable. [01:28:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:28:53] Speaker B: I'm I'm just gonna say, in oce, jungle is the most important role. Suren fire is currently the best jungler. Ground zero wins 20. [01:29:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's fine. [01:29:02] Speaker B: That's. Sorry. I'm being boring here, but, like, I. [01:29:07] Speaker A: Think I'm going a little bit more with my hot on ion. [01:29:10] Speaker B: I think you are absolutely kangaroo. [01:29:13] Speaker A: Kangarantic. [01:29:14] Speaker B: I did that in the ODT weapon and look what it did. [01:29:17] Speaker A: You were too much of a cadence believer. [01:29:20] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [01:29:21] Speaker A: Cadences. What team is he on right now? Mammoth. [01:29:24] Speaker B: I think he is odd. [01:29:26] Speaker A: Kanga. That's right. Yeah. Which leads us nicely to Kanga. And which is to answer antic. Yeah. [01:29:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:29:35] Speaker B: What did he say it was? Kanga. Anti. [01:29:37] Speaker A: Yep. [01:29:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Antic. [01:29:40] Speaker A: Cool, cool. And mammoth. Team bliss. I don't think I have to ask. [01:29:46] Speaker B: No, no, you don't. Team bliss. [01:29:47] Speaker A: Team bliss. I want that team. We should. We should take some time out in the show to take more about the. Talk more about the LCO. But we did have the cool opportunity to talk about ground zero and development stuff. But I think moving forward, we should take some more time out to talk about the LCO, especially get Pycon. [01:30:03] Speaker B: But that mammoth, I mean, look at who we have. Okay, sorry. [01:30:06] Speaker A: We got. We got to tailor the show to the guest. But, yeah, mammoth. I really just don't understand this roster at all. And I'm going to have lots of chances to talk about it. [01:30:17] Speaker B: Goodo has good in his name. [01:30:19] Speaker A: Goodo's not the problem. [01:30:21] Speaker C: Haven't they. I could be wrong, but haven't they lane swapped, like, four people? [01:30:25] Speaker A: They have, yeah. So that's the thing. They have gun crab and voice in the bot Lane, who are both ad carry mains. And then, I mean, as much of an ad carry as a guy like, voice can be. Voice plays a lot of weird, like zigs and seraphine and stuff when he's playing bot. And then Praedyth, who is a legend in the ad carry role, has been swapped to the mid lane, and he's the really, really the only consistent factor for them. Voice looks okay and gun crab. Like, I don't want to flame the guy, but I feel like that he's not even the best ad carry on. Mammoth and. [01:31:05] Speaker B: Yeah, but he's the only one who can't. Lane. [01:31:06] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe that's the situation. Right? [01:31:08] Speaker B: I think that's. I think that's exactly the situation, because look at the experience that voice and praedyth has, like, comparison just based on how long they've been in the scene. [01:31:16] Speaker C: Prayed if also played well last week. Yeah, he also did really well. [01:31:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So he, he and voice look pretty consistent, but I don't know, the team's just not putting it together. [01:31:25] Speaker B: I think the problem was just like, you know, I know. I'm not even gonna speculate on that. I think it's, it's a weird lineup that probably should have never happened to begin with and there, it's not like gridiron where you can just draft a bunch of specialty players and then have everything work out in your favor. You can't have like eight wide receivers. [01:31:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:31:43] Speaker B: In League of Legends. [01:31:43] Speaker A: No, you can't work. It's like specialization is literally the whole thing in League of Legends. So 20, everyone? Yeah. Yep. [01:31:52] Speaker B: Yep. Cool. [01:31:52] Speaker A: And finally, last game of the next upcoming week will be Fury versus dire Wolves. That's an interesting one. What do we got? [01:32:03] Speaker B: You know what? Whenever I'm in doubt, I just go back to the jungle rule. Direwolves two. No. [01:32:08] Speaker A: Hmm. Yeah. [01:32:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:12] Speaker A: What about you, Jonathan? [01:32:14] Speaker C: Oh, I'd like to see a one one, but I think it'll be 20 direwolves. [01:32:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Again, this is another situation where I want to go with my heart and give at least one to Fury. But direwolves are heating up. I think they're looking like the third, 4th best team in the league when they put it all together. So there'll be a threatened playoffs and fury. [01:32:35] Speaker B: Direwolfs, I think as a roster, yeah, they have top, they could be a top three lineup. [01:32:40] Speaker A: Yeah, they're threatening for sure. Um, I imagine the, the three teams we talked about as the top three are on notice when, when it comes to those guys probably doing all the scrims. Uh, but yeah, fury, they have players that we know and love and I want them to do well, but the roster's in turmoil. Um, so it's got to be a 20 for dire wolves. Yeah, yeah. [01:33:01] Speaker B: Um, I wish dire wolves was playing antic later in the season because I think if they're gonna pop off one of the top three, it'd be antic. [01:33:06] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Antic feels like the one you can, you can exploit a little bit. Just a little. The other ones are ironclad. Now, we are nearly at the end of our show. One last thing I do want to talk about and shout out is a thing that you and I are going to be working on, mister formal. [01:33:24] Speaker B: Oh. [01:33:24] Speaker A: Which will be space jump. That's happening like hella soon. [01:33:27] Speaker B: That's been mentioned a few times. That's two weekends away. [01:33:30] Speaker A: Isn't it? Yeah. So it's qualified. [01:33:33] Speaker B: I'm going to be in my new house. [01:33:34] Speaker A: Oh, damn. [01:33:35] Speaker B: Exciting. [01:33:36] Speaker A: Do we get to see the new house in the background? [01:33:38] Speaker B: The grounds of your mana, maybe? I don't know. Depends if the green screen fits or not. [01:33:43] Speaker A: We'll see at six and sevenths, that's space jump. So that's a rocket league. Rocket league grassroots tournament that myself and some good people will be putting on over in Perth. [01:33:56] Speaker B: I think Morgie is going to be casting with me that qualifiers. [01:33:59] Speaker A: Yeah, morgues on that. And Alyssia is gonna kill me for not knowing exactly the name of the event that it's attached to. So I really should get that. But it's part of a winter festival that's in association with, like, with the city of Perth and fringe and stuff. At this stage, I'm just gonna say, go on to, like, google space jump because the tickets are free. So if you happen to be in Perth, check it out. Hopefully we'll see yourself jar and some. [01:34:28] Speaker B: It's the supersonic cup. [01:34:29] Speaker A: Supersonic cup. Yeah. Winter. Winter cup. So hopefully some ground zero folks show up and do it. Yeah, it'll be sick. [01:34:39] Speaker B: If you live in Perth, esports are a rarity. You should show up and go. I almost. I was almost going to fly over for this event. [01:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah, we wanted to fly you over so bad. [01:34:49] Speaker B: I probably should admit that. I'm not flying a. Probably shouldn't say that, but I was planning on it and then the whole, um, life happened. [01:34:58] Speaker A: Yeah, the house. [01:34:59] Speaker B: So I. Not happened. I. I will explain later. [01:35:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:35:03] Speaker B: Um. [01:35:03] Speaker A: Yeah, we wanted to fly over. Like we had the. We had this. [01:35:07] Speaker B: Even if the budget was there, I would not have been able to make it. Let's put it that way. [01:35:11] Speaker A: That's what it is. Uh, but yeah, that brings us to the end of our show. The end of our run sheet. We can wrap it up here. Um, so we can. [01:35:19] Speaker B: We can get jar out of league of legends hell. [01:35:21] Speaker A: Jar out of League of Legends hell where he's been subjected. Draft talk. [01:35:25] Speaker C: It's. It's good to watch. I just haven't finished the tutorial, so I know nothing about the game. [01:35:29] Speaker A: The tutorial for the game just doesn't exist. It's. You go into solo queue and suffer for a year. [01:35:34] Speaker B: Ooh, that's which game. You know what? No, sorry, I could ramble. That is a topic for. [01:35:40] Speaker A: Let's put that on the run sheet for future. [01:35:41] Speaker B: Yeah, put on the production for next week. Which game has the worst tutorial? [01:35:45] Speaker A: Worst, worst tutorial all right. Yeah. You're not going to be with us for next week at least. So what do you got? Worst tutorial? [01:35:52] Speaker C: Old school runescape. [01:35:53] Speaker A: Oh. Okay. That's when I haven't experienced. [01:35:55] Speaker B: You know what? I agree. That made me rage, quit, and never want to touch. [01:36:02] Speaker A: Okay. We're gonna. We can't get too lost in the subject, but dissolves games count because they don't really have a tutorial as such. They just don't. [01:36:11] Speaker B: I think it has to be. It has to be. [01:36:12] Speaker A: It's okay. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Definitely a conversation we can have later. [01:36:15] Speaker B: On that role score. Runescapes, a shout. I agree with that. So hard. [01:36:20] Speaker A: But, yeah, we can wrap it up here. That's been our first episode of ENT. What the acronym stands for is yet to be determined. Please let us know if you have suggestions and. Yeah, ja. Thanks for being on. [01:36:34] Speaker C: No worries. [01:36:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. Pleasure. And we'll look forward to hopefully having you on for a future episode. And I guess I will ask you guys, any closing thoughts, any shouts you want to make? Anything you want to say before we wrap it up? [01:36:46] Speaker B: The f one race starts at 15 minutes, man. [01:36:48] Speaker A: All right. [01:36:48] Speaker B: Got to date. [01:36:51] Speaker A: All the timing. All right. Hell, yeah. [01:36:56] Speaker B: Thanks. [01:36:57] Speaker A: Thanks for listening, everyone. Please check out our sister show in oceanic gaming radio, and we do have a patreon that's attached to oceanic gaming radio. So jump on Google, whatever platform you're looking on. There will be a link to that. Support the show, and thank you. We'll catch you in a couple of weeks. Peace. Bye.